It’s not just women who feel it, Amy. I felt it my entire career for reasons going back to childhood, but also because I worked in a very credential conscious work environment where my education didn’t include post grad degrees, yet I had to cover for credentialed idiots. I did have far fewer problems with women coworkers, probably because of their sensitivity to the whole imposter syndrome thing.
I once had a male country director in the FSU who had a PhD in something, not relevant to the job, but it did give him a sense of entitlement. We had a micro finance project in his country and we appointed a very competent woman from an African country to run it, but the country director continually questioned her experience. Fortunately, our headquarters micro finance technical director was a strong woman who asked me what to do about the situation, because she was inclined to kill the guy. I told her to do anything she wanted that wouldn’t result in her getting charged with a felony.
The result was that we never had any more problems with the guy. A woman who has experienced imposter syndrome and who is fierce is the one best suited to resolve a situation like the one I described.
My own experience made me sensitive to the problem and in my last posting, I removed two expatriate men who were completely oblivious to their effect on staff. I replaced them with competent women and the staff problems that had dogged us went away. But I also had an expatriate man running a project who thoroughly trained and mentored a young woman who confidently replaced him. Some guys get it.
I'm going to tell you this because I think you are a good guy and you really want to do better.
I usually ignore a comment like yours, that immediately makes it about you rather than reflecting on what I actually wrote. If you read my whole piece you would have seen that that in the mid 1980s the definition of imposter syndrome was expanded to include men and average achievers - so, basically everyone.
I encourage you to take a long pause and think when you feel the urge to begin a comment with a version of any of the following:
1. Not all men
2. It effects men too
3. I'm one go the good guys
4. It didn't happen to me so it's not happening
5. All women
6. You''re wrong because my experience was different
Lead from empathy and validation with something like this:
1. I'm listening, tell me more
2. Your work resonates with me because...
3. Thank you for sharing your experience, it helped me understand
You can assume that the last four are my Rules of Engagement. I understand those things and I think you know that. Also, I was underscoring your point about those of us in supervisory positions being sensitive to those who experienced a dismissive attitude from senior managers. It was difficult for women, but sometimes it was even worse for my several male colleagues from Africa. No matter how competent, productive, and technically skilled they were, the big bosses were often dismissive.
I only mentioned my experience because it was bitter and lasted for many years in an extremely passive aggressive work culture and it was something I coexperienced with my female colleagues. We often discussed it together so we could support each other in the toxic environment and so we could be consistent with field staff, especially in Latin America programs where chauvinism was at its worst. Sometimes, I got calls from field staff complaining about my technical staff who documented problems, but I always supported my staff because they were competent and their observations were accurate.
In my situation, it was important to create solidarity by respecting and supporting one another, since we all experienced it.
Would you prefer that I don’t respond? I can do that if I come across as someone who doesn’t get it, and I often feel that I come across as offensive.
Totally rigged! Thanks for spotlighting and reframing this, Amy. It makes total sense that it is systemic. Once you realize it, you can adjust your mindset. I am looking forward to what you report back.
Thank you Ilona! I appreciate the support and kindness you have shown me since I first started writing on Substack. You've helped me to keep writing when I've felt like I had nothing important to say. It feels important for me to tell you how impactful your presence has been and will continue to be in the new year. Best wishes for a peaceful holiday!
Thank you Bonnie! The reality is, that for girls and women it's just as important, if not more so, to be liked than to be accomplished. We are never given a pass for our achievements alone. If we aren't likable, especially to other women, we will never reach our true potential the same way a man could.
thank you for your work. I think a lot of psychological diagnoses don't take into account the WHY of the situation. It's not coming from an internal discomfort.
Yes!! Historical context is so important. People are quick to say "that was in the past", rather than acknowledge how the legacy of bias and brutality impacts our experiences in the present.
Thank you Prajna! I always appreciate your thoughtful and supportive comments. I want you to know how amazing I think you are, and I honor your experience as a solo mother to medically fragile children. Your capacity to help others is truly inspiring, and I'm grateful to have found you.
Great research. And given our culture it makes sense that imposter syndrome as your research defines it would be skewed toward women.
It's a difficult term since on the one hand you have people who feel imposter syndrome because of the system and the culture.
On the other hand you have people who know that they are unqualified for the responsibilities and authority they've ben granted. My experience is that those people become tyrants. I guess we need another term for that set of people.
I wonder if I didn't do a good job stating my point. Here's what I wrote to Nan:
Those self doubting voices were a result of a system that indeed tells women (and other marginalized populations) that you aren't good enough. We see white male mediocrity rise to above hard working women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+ and the reality is, within that system, we never will be good enough. All our achievements, accolades, prizes, etc. will never be enough for those controlling the system of oppression. The work is dismantling the system. In this case, the call was always coming from outside the house, the call telling us we weren't good enough. We've just been gaslit into believing that there's something wrong with us for not seeing how great we really are. We don't need therapy, we need to take a sledgehammer to the system that elevates orange buffoons and rapists.
As for "people who know they are unqualified for the responsibilities and authority they've ben granted," the one's who become tyrants, I think a term already exists for them: Entitled assholes .
GAH! I know. Right? We're still struggling with this issue? Doesn't it suck? I'm on a roll this week, and it's only MONDAY. I've spent this past year getting over that one. I was plagued with impostor syndrome for years, thinking every good or kind of good thing I did or got praised for was just a fluke, and it was so hard for me to accept positive feedback without deflecting. And then I started doing it (writing) anyway...and that little voice in the back of my head would pop in occasionally to say, "No, they're going to find out you're not good at this, blah, blah, blah, you're going to run out of ideas, blah, blah, blah." I learned to say "thank you for sharing that with me, little voice in the back of my head, now kindly shut the fuck up, you've been messing with me for far too long, and I'm tired of it." Doing a lot of therapy and 12-Step has helped enormously. Getting out of my own way, the fears of failure that have dogged me for years, all of it. I decided to stop listening to the negative voice and giving power to my fears. I'm done with that shit. It's time to shine. ALL of us. More women than men, I'm afraid, but it must affect men as well. The damage that gets done in childhood has the potential and often does follow us throughout our lives. Let's SLAY. It's what we're here to do. xoxo
You rock Nan! You've done a lot of great work quieting those negative voices that try to tell say you aren't good enough. I guess my point was that those self doubting voices were a result of a system that indeed tells women (and other marginalized populations) that you aren't good enough. We see white male mediocrity rise to above hard working women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+ and the reality is, within that system, we never will be good enough. All our achievements, accolades, prizes, etc. will never be enough for those controlling the system of oppression. The work is dismantling the system. In this case, the call was always coming from outside the house, the call telling us we weren't good enough. We've just been gaslit into believing that there's something wrong with us for not seeing how great we really are. We don't need therapy, we need to take a sledgehammer to the system that elevates orange buffoons and rapists.
It’s not just women who feel it, Amy. I felt it my entire career for reasons going back to childhood, but also because I worked in a very credential conscious work environment where my education didn’t include post grad degrees, yet I had to cover for credentialed idiots. I did have far fewer problems with women coworkers, probably because of their sensitivity to the whole imposter syndrome thing.
I once had a male country director in the FSU who had a PhD in something, not relevant to the job, but it did give him a sense of entitlement. We had a micro finance project in his country and we appointed a very competent woman from an African country to run it, but the country director continually questioned her experience. Fortunately, our headquarters micro finance technical director was a strong woman who asked me what to do about the situation, because she was inclined to kill the guy. I told her to do anything she wanted that wouldn’t result in her getting charged with a felony.
The result was that we never had any more problems with the guy. A woman who has experienced imposter syndrome and who is fierce is the one best suited to resolve a situation like the one I described.
My own experience made me sensitive to the problem and in my last posting, I removed two expatriate men who were completely oblivious to their effect on staff. I replaced them with competent women and the staff problems that had dogged us went away. But I also had an expatriate man running a project who thoroughly trained and mentored a young woman who confidently replaced him. Some guys get it.
I'm going to tell you this because I think you are a good guy and you really want to do better.
I usually ignore a comment like yours, that immediately makes it about you rather than reflecting on what I actually wrote. If you read my whole piece you would have seen that that in the mid 1980s the definition of imposter syndrome was expanded to include men and average achievers - so, basically everyone.
I encourage you to take a long pause and think when you feel the urge to begin a comment with a version of any of the following:
1. Not all men
2. It effects men too
3. I'm one go the good guys
4. It didn't happen to me so it's not happening
5. All women
6. You''re wrong because my experience was different
Lead from empathy and validation with something like this:
1. I'm listening, tell me more
2. Your work resonates with me because...
3. Thank you for sharing your experience, it helped me understand
4. I believe you
You can assume that the last four are my Rules of Engagement. I understand those things and I think you know that. Also, I was underscoring your point about those of us in supervisory positions being sensitive to those who experienced a dismissive attitude from senior managers. It was difficult for women, but sometimes it was even worse for my several male colleagues from Africa. No matter how competent, productive, and technically skilled they were, the big bosses were often dismissive.
I only mentioned my experience because it was bitter and lasted for many years in an extremely passive aggressive work culture and it was something I coexperienced with my female colleagues. We often discussed it together so we could support each other in the toxic environment and so we could be consistent with field staff, especially in Latin America programs where chauvinism was at its worst. Sometimes, I got calls from field staff complaining about my technical staff who documented problems, but I always supported my staff because they were competent and their observations were accurate.
In my situation, it was important to create solidarity by respecting and supporting one another, since we all experienced it.
Would you prefer that I don’t respond? I can do that if I come across as someone who doesn’t get it, and I often feel that I come across as offensive.
Totally rigged! Thanks for spotlighting and reframing this, Amy. It makes total sense that it is systemic. Once you realize it, you can adjust your mindset. I am looking forward to what you report back.
Thank you Ilona! I appreciate the support and kindness you have shown me since I first started writing on Substack. You've helped me to keep writing when I've felt like I had nothing important to say. It feels important for me to tell you how impactful your presence has been and will continue to be in the new year. Best wishes for a peaceful holiday!
This is great. So important to evaluate that early meassging we got and may still subconsciously be telling ourselves.
Thank you Bonnie! The reality is, that for girls and women it's just as important, if not more so, to be liked than to be accomplished. We are never given a pass for our achievements alone. If we aren't likable, especially to other women, we will never reach our true potential the same way a man could.
thank you for your work. I think a lot of psychological diagnoses don't take into account the WHY of the situation. It's not coming from an internal discomfort.
Yes!! Historical context is so important. People are quick to say "that was in the past", rather than acknowledge how the legacy of bias and brutality impacts our experiences in the present.
Well done, so relatable. I don’t recall, having too much of the imposter syndrome. I was too busy reckoning with being a female.
I get all that you’re saying that so well done thank you
Still unraveling this shit, and the psychology of women is so impacted still
Thank you, Amy
Thank you Prajna! I always appreciate your thoughtful and supportive comments. I want you to know how amazing I think you are, and I honor your experience as a solo mother to medically fragile children. Your capacity to help others is truly inspiring, and I'm grateful to have found you.
Great research. And given our culture it makes sense that imposter syndrome as your research defines it would be skewed toward women.
It's a difficult term since on the one hand you have people who feel imposter syndrome because of the system and the culture.
On the other hand you have people who know that they are unqualified for the responsibilities and authority they've ben granted. My experience is that those people become tyrants. I guess we need another term for that set of people.
I wonder if I didn't do a good job stating my point. Here's what I wrote to Nan:
Those self doubting voices were a result of a system that indeed tells women (and other marginalized populations) that you aren't good enough. We see white male mediocrity rise to above hard working women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+ and the reality is, within that system, we never will be good enough. All our achievements, accolades, prizes, etc. will never be enough for those controlling the system of oppression. The work is dismantling the system. In this case, the call was always coming from outside the house, the call telling us we weren't good enough. We've just been gaslit into believing that there's something wrong with us for not seeing how great we really are. We don't need therapy, we need to take a sledgehammer to the system that elevates orange buffoons and rapists.
As for "people who know they are unqualified for the responsibilities and authority they've ben granted," the one's who become tyrants, I think a term already exists for them: Entitled assholes .
GAH! I know. Right? We're still struggling with this issue? Doesn't it suck? I'm on a roll this week, and it's only MONDAY. I've spent this past year getting over that one. I was plagued with impostor syndrome for years, thinking every good or kind of good thing I did or got praised for was just a fluke, and it was so hard for me to accept positive feedback without deflecting. And then I started doing it (writing) anyway...and that little voice in the back of my head would pop in occasionally to say, "No, they're going to find out you're not good at this, blah, blah, blah, you're going to run out of ideas, blah, blah, blah." I learned to say "thank you for sharing that with me, little voice in the back of my head, now kindly shut the fuck up, you've been messing with me for far too long, and I'm tired of it." Doing a lot of therapy and 12-Step has helped enormously. Getting out of my own way, the fears of failure that have dogged me for years, all of it. I decided to stop listening to the negative voice and giving power to my fears. I'm done with that shit. It's time to shine. ALL of us. More women than men, I'm afraid, but it must affect men as well. The damage that gets done in childhood has the potential and often does follow us throughout our lives. Let's SLAY. It's what we're here to do. xoxo
You rock Nan! You've done a lot of great work quieting those negative voices that try to tell say you aren't good enough. I guess my point was that those self doubting voices were a result of a system that indeed tells women (and other marginalized populations) that you aren't good enough. We see white male mediocrity rise to above hard working women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+ and the reality is, within that system, we never will be good enough. All our achievements, accolades, prizes, etc. will never be enough for those controlling the system of oppression. The work is dismantling the system. In this case, the call was always coming from outside the house, the call telling us we weren't good enough. We've just been gaslit into believing that there's something wrong with us for not seeing how great we really are. We don't need therapy, we need to take a sledgehammer to the system that elevates orange buffoons and rapists.
Brilliant
I have a sledgehammer. Can I help?
I would be honored!