Maslow’s hierarchy of needs puts love at the third most important, after physiological and safety needs. But as someone who has spent the last almost three years sick and pretty much entirely alone, I confidently say that love is as important to our physiology as it is to our sense of safety. If not for love, I don’t believe I would have healed, and if I had not been so alone, I think I would have healed faster. Co-regulation - in my opinion - is both a physiological and a safety requirement. Do you need to have love to also have co-regulation? I guess that depends on your definition of love.
It’s easy to talk ourselves out of our need for love, especially when it seems so abstract and distant (I’ve done it for years). But I do believe we always come back to it, and to not would be to our great detriment.
I think part of the reason I stayed with Matthew for so long and through such mistreatment is because I needed to believe in love to get me through the worst of my illness. I look back at all of the pain I’ve experienced in the last nine months, and the knowing that for him it was a lie, and I still wouldn’t give up my experience of loving him for anything. It healed me.
Love makes no sense to the mind, but to the spirit and the soul, it’s everything. Love exists beyond the material, the logical, the reasonable, the constructs of society, and - often - sanity. It’s inconvenient and messy and disgusting, but it’s also (in my opinion) necessary.
That said, up until recently, my relationship with love wasn’t healthy, and that’s what made me a magnet for chaos and suffering for it. Real, healthy love doesn’t ask you to choose. And if does, it’s usually worth the compromise.
Cici, I love your balancing between pragmatism and romanticism. I agree with you about healthy love being worth the compromise. I think it’s easy to get caught up in the chaos of unhealthy entanglements because they are exciting and that excitement makes us feel more alive. Unfortunately it can also make us feel like we are on a rollercoaster ride with very high “ups” and extremely low “downs”. Ultimately it doesn’t feel good to stay hyper vigilant, wondering how the other person feels about us. Lasting love may lack the volatility of a passionate love affair, but that’s what is necessary for the benefits of co-regulation. I love your writing, and feel a kinship with your story. We may not agree on all points when it comes to love and relationships, but I have mad respect for you always. 🥰❤️
“I think it's easy to get caught up in the chaos of unhealthy entanglements because they are exciting and that excitement makes us feel more alive. Unfortunately it can also make us feel like we are on a
rollercoaster ride with very high "ups" and extremely low "downs". Ultimately it doesn't feel good to stay hyper vigilant, wondering how the other person feels about us. Lasting love may lack the volatility of a passionate love affair, but that's what is necessary for the benefits of co-regulation.”
Amy, your response beautifully highlights the tension between the excitement of volatile love and the grounding stability of healthy, lasting love. I can deeply relate to your thoughts on co-regulation and the importance of equality in relationships.
In my past relationships, I often found myself in co-dependent dynamics, where I never truly felt equal—it was more about 'power over' than 'power with.' That imbalance left me craving something healthier and more mutual. If you have access to MasterClass, I’d recommend Esther Perel’s sessions on Relational Intelligence about relationships and love—it was a real eye-opener for me, offering new perspectives on connection and intimacy.
Oooo I love Esther Perel! I just listened to her interview with Miranda July about her book “All Fours”. Yes, you capture exactly what I was thinking about. I’ve been doing some research on the concept of “gender roles” (a concept which is actually quite recent in the US, 1950s), to better understand how masculine and feminine traits were assigned and accepted at large. Is it nature, nurture, or a combination of the two which can form a kind of addiction to love, in an unhealthy way? It’s a lot to think about and I haven’t found any easy answers.
Amy, I often wonder if everyone in the Western world over 35 who was socialized as female has, in some way, absorbed the idea that love involves “power over.” It’s the shadow of classical patriarchy, reinforced by hierarchical structures that shaped so much of life for generations before us. Obedience and oppression weren’t just accepted—they were normalized for our female ancestors. That’s how they were raised. I suspect the influence of religion played an even stronger role for some women, particularly in the U.S., where many religious extremists, cast out from European homelands, established new communities shaped by rigid beliefs.
Cici, your reflections are incredibly moving. I deeply resonate with your insights about love and co-regulation being essential to both our physiology and sense of safety. Love, in its purest form, is non-dual—it isn’t bound to conditions or circumstances, even when it becomes entangled with pain or complexity.
Your experience with Matthew speaks to how love, even amidst struggle, can provide profound healing. Yet it’s powerful that you’ve also recognized the importance of healthy love—one that nurtures rather than diminishes. Thank you for sharing this part of your journey—it’s a poignant reminder of love’s transformative essence.
Thank you!! I’m one of those ride or die I love love girls, no matter how much it burns. It’s always worth it to me. It’s not the same for everyone, of course, but for me that has always (so far) been true.
Cici, your passion for love shines so clearly, and I admire your courage to embrace it fully, even when it’s challenging. Your 'ride or die' approach is such a beautiful testament to the faith you have in love’s power, no matter how complex or consuming it may be. It’s inspiring to witness someone who sees love as always worth it, even with the risks it brings. Thank you for sharing your perspective—it’s a gift to hear how deeply you honor love’s place in your life. 🩷
Great questions! Some initial thoughts: to me, love (by which I guess I mean some sort of intelligent energy) is the basic building block of existence. This comes from an experience I once had that was a spiritual awakening of sorts (I've written about it before). I also personally believe we are souls currently having a human experience, and most likely lots of them over the course of our evolution.
So, like, yeah, food, water, and oxygen are basic survival needs in a way that romantic love is not - but when I zoom out and look at why are we doing this human dance in the first place, it is (for me) to learn things and grow spiritually so that I may embody a more divine love and maybe someday merge with whatever that loving energy is at the center of existence. And without that, I would feel a sort of existential angst that, granted, is a privilege you don't have when dying of thirst or whatever, but to me that is the kind of love I would rank highly on the list.
Thank you Bonnie for such a beautiful response to what I envisioned was a simple question. It was clearly much more complicated, and I'm not even sure of my own feelings like I once was. I love you 🥰❤️
Bonnie, I deeply appreciate the way you’ve framed love as an intelligent energy and the basic building block of existence. That perspective is so expansive and resonates with a sense of interconnectedness I often reflect on. Your description of the human experience as a journey to learn, grow, and embody a more divine love really speaks to me. It feels like such a profound yet grounding way to look at our purpose here.
You’re absolutely right that love, in this broader sense, addresses a need beyond survival—a kind of spiritual sustenance. While food, water, and oxygen keep the body alive, love in this form nourishes the soul and gives deeper meaning to the human dance, as you so beautifully put it.
That contrast between the urgency of physical needs and the privilege of contemplating love’s divine nature is so striking. It reminds me of how layered and complex our human experience is—we’re balancing the immediate with the infinite, the tangible with the transcendent. Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful and inspiring perspective!
It's true that love can't feed/water us or clothe us or give us physical structures. But it can do a number on our nervous systems and brains, it can help us heal quicker, it can provide emotional safety and security - all of which are equal to our physical wellbeing. I do not believe romantic love is an end all be all love, in fact it's never supposed to be, it's supposed to be the foot in the door kind of love. I've always viewed romantic love as an ebb and flow kind of love. You build the foundation on love for one another by cultivating trust and friendship and mutual respect for each other, romantic love comes in and plays for a little while then goes down for a nap and comes back again to play and then goes down for a nap, etc.. over and over. At least that's how I've viewed it :)
I love your thoughts on it! And to answer your question - yes, a peaceful life and romantic love can absolutely coexist :)
Wise Mesa! I think what you wrote about is the ideal in practice, and so I wonder why this type of love is not "marketed" towards young people. I suppose it isn't "sexy" enough, there needs to be conflict in storytelling, and the higher the stakes the better. If there's one thing about getting older (and I actually believe there are many) it's that we value the peaceful, drama-free love over the frenetic passion of movie love. I hope I'm making some sense. I just listened to Noha Beshir and Amanda Hinton on their livestream and I'm a bit in my feelings. I love you Mesa, XO 🥰❤️
Mesa, I love how you’ve described romantic love as an ebb and flow—a kind of playful, cyclical presence that integrates itself into a foundation of trust, friendship, and mutual respect. That imagery really resonates with me.
I also appreciate your point about love’s impact on our nervous systems and emotional wellbeing. While it may not fulfill our primary physical needs, the emotional safety and healing it offers feel just as essential for a thriving life. Love, in all its forms, has this incredible way of weaving itself into our overall health, creating connections that nurture us in ways we often overlook.
And I agree—romantic love doesn’t have to be the "end all be all" kind of love. It’s one piece of a larger mosaic that includes self-love, community love, and all those little acts of care we give and receive daily. I think when we let love exist alongside peace, rather than viewing them as opposing forces, it enriches both.
Your perspective is such a gift—thank you for sharing it!
Thank you K! I found that after Steven’s death I was looking for passion, not necessarily love, but something powerful to make me feel alive again. I’ve just come to realize that over time that type of relationship doesn’t last. I just wonder if there’s a way to have the peaceful, gentle love that endures while sometimes experiencing wild passion, the type that will knock your socks off? I love you K XO 🥰❤️
It’s not as straight forward as I first imagined. I guess this is what I’m wrestling with as I think about finding a new partner or remaining single. I am lonely, and I do long for romantic love, but I am also living a peaceful life. I’m not sure how to balance the ambiguity at the beginning of a relationship. This is often the exciting part of getting to know someone new, but with so much uncertainty about the future I feel very anxious. My nervous system is primed for loss, and I’m afraid to experience it again.
I hear you, Amy. It sounds like you can't go wrong as you are so honest — the anxiety is normal and in naming it — for me — it is a more friendly companion. Not sure I will ever get over anxiety or feel I can manage a relationship — even though I do feel lonely at times. I look forward to cheering you on and learning from this adventure.
I think we do all need some type of love and caring for other human beings, I just find that romantic love is often packaged as something more like attraction in reality. We talk about heat, a spark, fire - to me it feels volatile and unpredictable, but does that ring true for you? I'm curious to get a man's perspective.
Wow. I’m flattered that you asked for my perspective.
I agree that romantic love often feels volatile and unpredictable, and I’m not sure any of us enjoy that. It is the most interesting kind of love, which is probably why it gets so much attention, but it doesn’t work well as a standalone.
The ancient Greeks did a pretty decent job of sorting through the different varieties of those emotions we call love. Xenia, Storge, Eros, Philia, Philautia, and Agape.
Agape: unconditional love. Charity.
Philia: loyalty to friends, family, community. Brotherly love.
Storge: love within a family towards family members.
Xenia: hospitality
Philautia: a healthy regard for oneself that can bleed over into egotism.
Eros: the really good stuff that causes so much trouble and and so much joy. It also causes babies.
As a man, I’m thinking analytically about a combination of these different types of love that would make me most happy.
Agape: 25%. It’s what I chose as a career and how I found satisfaction in the workplace.
Philia: 20%. It’s where we find our self worth, acceptance, and security among our families, friends and communities. Vital.
Storge: 30%. The love we have for those closest to us. The bonds of family. The love infants require to thrive. Home and all that it means.
Xenia: 20%. It’s what makes the world a safe-ish place to live. I’ve experienced it all around the world, from cattle herder camps in the African wilderness to McMansions in America. It’s seems dicey but we really can count on it.
Philautia: 10%. It’s the healthy self-regard that can easily bleed into arrogant assholism. Handle with care.
Eros: theoretically, 100% would be my natural preference (as a man) but this candle burns hot and from both ends. It can bring great joy or a lot of trouble. It also doesn’t serve us well outside a healthy mix of the other varieties, but when it’s good, there is no human experience like it. It is especially great as it matures with time and experience together. This kind of love between two people is like a soul superglue that binds them together through thick and thin.
I don’t know if this makes sense, Amy, but it’s my perspective. Others’ mileage may very.
This is pretty amazing - I appreciate this detailed information. It's going to take me a little while to digest it all, however I will read it in the context of the times. This list was written by men who were the only people allowed the benefits of citizenship (women, children and slaves were not considered citizens). That doesn't mean I disregard the novel ideas proposed by the ancient Greeks, but it's important to understand that they only applied to a quarter of the population. It's difficult to understand how a group of men can be so smart in many regards and yet treat 3/4 of the population as property.
I always think of how they were the only small light in an era of darkness when almost everyone lived in brutal poverty and oppression. It all had to start somewhere and other than the Hebrews, there was a lot of darkness.
Hi Amy. I enjoyed thinking about this, and I beg to differ a bit. I think love is a primary need to grow up healthy. I think about the children who went to Indian residential schools, lacking a loving parent to nurture them, who grew up to be people who had no idea how to parent, suffered with addictions and had kids who grew up traumatized due to the lack of love of their parents... that type of love, whether from a parent or a surrogate, is what provides us peace and stability. If we have that, we can manage without romantic love. Thanks for the thought-provoking question! And for your writing.
Hi Susan! Thank you so much for this thoughtful comment. Yes, I agree 100% that children need the love and caring of adults in order to thrive and in many cases to survive. There are so many different types of love, and so many levels. I've been thinking a lot about romantic love and how it's "sold" to girls as a passion. This type of relationship is often unhealthy and possessive, and most detrimental to women. I just wonder if that's by design? Is it nature, nurture or a combination of the two?
The best of all worlds, in my view, is a long happy marriage, where you are living with a well-seasoned love. Your world contains that emotion, which brings inner joy, contentment and occasional passion without all the hormones of new love throwing you in all kinds of directions. My post next Wednesday is exactly about the meaning of love to people who have been married a long time (the title is Encounter in Rome). When you think about it, not many songs are about this either.
I agree with you Ann, and David too. Unfortunately, my happy marriage ended when Steven died. I haven't been successful trying to replicate that type of love with someone new. I'm beginning to think it isn't really possible to have that type of love twice, not at my age, because I won't be having and raising a family with a new man. I once believed I would fall in love again after my husband died, but it's proven to be a very painful experience. I think my expectations were unrealistic, but I don't know any other way to be than how I am.
I know, Amy, and I am very sad for that fact. It could have been any of us, but it happened to be you. I don't think you are right to assume it can't happen again. It's just damned difficult to find. No, you won't be having children with a new man but you have a long life ahead of you and there are good men out there somewhere who would bring you joy. One day, when you are least expecting it, you will be pleasantly surprised and amazed. I hope it is soon.
Romantic love, fun to read about, not so good in a real relationship. I'm married to a man I love with all my heart, and romance has nothing to do with it. It's about respect and commonality and the chance to be authentic for each other.
I believe we can have both. I see romantic love as close to primary, to need. Long time with my husband, but I was safe and free to be me. Long time on my own but feeling safe, supported, free and cared about. That guy completes my life… a hand to hold, the anticipation, attraction. But it’s on our terms… being on our own but together now and then. Great piece to ponder, Amy! And I think you’ll change your mind as time and fate brings new people and experiences. It’s also different for each person; some never open their hearts again after loss or divorce. We are the lucky ones, when recovering from grief is helped a bit! ☺️🫶
You are a brave revolutionary Joan! When I feel particularly tender and vulnerable I will let you hold my hope for a new love. Sometimes the longing is just too much for me to carry on my own. I put it on a shelf and focus on other parts of my life. I don't want to be a closed off wounded person, but my "man picker" has been on the fritz. Love you to pieces! XO 🥰❤️
Amy, you stated that “Primary needs are biological and physical, like oxygen, shelter, food, water and clothing.” I’m wondering how we separate primary needs from love? I can’t perceive them as something separate from love.
Hi Lila! I was referring to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. According to Wikipedia:
Maslow's hierarchy of needs is an idea in psychology proposed by American psychologist Abraham Maslow in his 1943 paper "A Theory of Human Motivation" in the journal Psychological Review. Maslow subsequently extended the idea to include his observations of humans' innate curiosity. His theories parallel many other theories of human developmental psychology, some of which focus on describing the stages of growth in humans. The theory is a classification system intended to reflect the universal needs of society as its base, then proceeding to more acquired emotions.
This is only one theory, and while it is widely accepted, it is by no means the only one. I should have clarified that by "primary needs" I meant physiological needs as stated in Maslow's hierarchy.
I don't feel you have to choose. I think one can lead a "peaceful" life in the context of a deeply satisfying romantic relationship. But "romance" means different things to different people. Some people see chaos and tension as inherent in what they think of as "romantic love," but I don't.
It may have to do with where we are in our lives. Right now my life is probably a bit too peaceful and definitely not nearly romantic enough.
I agree with you about where we are in our lives. I would love some romance in my life but not at the cost of my peaceful life. I am tired of doing all the emotional work within a relationship. I'm looking for a man who is able to talk about his feelings so I don't have guess, a man who understands that I need clear and consistent communication rather than vagueness and avoidance. I'm not sure he exists.
I'm definitely someone who wants to be free of drama. I can't take it. So I wouldn't sacrifice peacefulness just for romance. My own experience from my marriage is that even among two intelligent and verbally adept people good communication was often elusive. It's much harder to manage than one would think. It takes dedication from both partners. I like to think this is possible.
I will keep looking for it, that clear and consistent communication, but it takes two to tango 🥰. In my past relationships I was mostly dancing by myself.
Unrelated, I’m thinking I should give my Substack publication a proper name. What do you think of “Absolute Pleasure”?
Interesting. What is your motive for the name? In particular, the word “absolute”? I’m someone who tends not to think in terms of absolutes, so I’m curious about that. If you like it, go for it, regardless of what anyone else says. The only criterion that matters is whether it fits what you want to do to express what you want to express.
Got it! I have many fond memories of that show. I saw it for the first time sometime around 1980 at a midnight show in my hometown theater. Weirdest movie experience I ever had. Audience members shouting at the screen. The start of a life-long appreciation of the charms of Susan Sarandon.
Amy, excellent question. I think that “the thing called love” changes as we do, becoming a richer, more layered experience. If we’re lucky, we will get to be on a relative with someone who can help you become the best version of yourself, and that this is a mutual process. I think that, realistically, we can’t exactly any one person to fill all of our needs at any given time. Just my thoughts. Much love to you, and Happy Thanksgiving!🦃🥰💕
Thank you Mary, and I agree that it's unrealistic to expect one person to fill all our needs and yet our familial structure is based on the "nuclear family". I feel like, post-pandemic lockdowns, we are more isolated than ever. I wonder if we lived a more communal or multi generational lifestyle if there would be as much importance placed on romantic love and finding our "soulmate". Basically, I just like to question systems we often take for grated as "just being the way things are" rather than they way our cultural systems shape them. I get curious about who benefits from the ideal of one man and one woman together forever. Does this ensure that women remain financially dependent on men? Once again, I have more questions than answers. Happy Thanksgiving to you too! XO 🥰❤️🥰❤️
I agree with you Elizabeth. In the three and a half years since my husband died I have had zero success finding a healthy romantic attachment, and I’m finding it easier to live a more peaceful life alone and with friends. I don’t know if that’s because my expectations didn’t match the reality of the way men and women connect romantically these days, or if relationships are just harder with so many “options” seemingly available 24/7.
I guess that was my question, because I've only ever felt lust outside of a relationship. There's a slow burn that happens over time when two people are in a long-term, monogamous partnership, that hasn't translated into what I think of as "passion". I was wondering if it's possible to have an ease and familiarity with someone and still lust for them. As I'm deciding whether I want to try dating again, I wonder if I need to adjust my expectations. I've looked for lust with the hope that it might develop into something more, but that never happens. I've been in relationships and tried to incorporate passion and it hasn't worked. I wonder if I need to chose one or the other, or maybe stick with the peaceful life I've created alone - even if it is lonely.
I think that the only way to really live life is to take risks and maintain your openness and vulnerability. Yes, when you enter into a new relationship, you're taking a risk of being hurt but, ultimately, that risk, pain, and joy are the things that make life worth living,
I have had a relationship that contained passion as well as comfort and it was sublime. It ended because of outside circumstances involving past family trauma on her part — but I'd kill to have that again and I'm willing to risk hurt in the searching for it.
Thank you for your perspective Mark. I always thought of myself as a calculated risk taker, but love is not something that can be assessed for its level of safety. I wish you so much luck and good fortune finding a love filled with both comfort and passion in equal measure! I would be happy to find something like that as well, but no luck yet.
Just try to remain open to people and possibilities that present themselves. Obviously, as a woman, you need to protect yourself from physical and emotional abuse due to misogyny and the "asshole quotient" but there are many many people who don't fit into either of those categories in this world...
In this case, I'd like to pose the question—why does it have to be separate? I do value my current quiet life, yes, yet living alone with almost no meaningful social connections involving intimacy leaves a kind of void. The only vital body contact I have comes from my physiotherapist, my Thai massage therapist, my Alexander Technique coach, and my cat. And to be honest—it’s not enough.
From time to time, I wish to be held, to have someone to lean on, a shoulder to rest against. And I believe that in a relationship based on equity, mutual respect, and appreciation—where both partners see eye to eye and don’t need to "complete" one another because we’re each whole, complete, valid, and worthy on our own—why not have both peace and love?
Romantic love doesn’t need to disrupt peace; it can complement it, creating a shared sanctuary where connection and individuality coexist. For me, the two don’t have to conflict—they can enrich one another. I’d love to hear how others experience this balance.
Maslow’s hierarchy of needs puts love at the third most important, after physiological and safety needs. But as someone who has spent the last almost three years sick and pretty much entirely alone, I confidently say that love is as important to our physiology as it is to our sense of safety. If not for love, I don’t believe I would have healed, and if I had not been so alone, I think I would have healed faster. Co-regulation - in my opinion - is both a physiological and a safety requirement. Do you need to have love to also have co-regulation? I guess that depends on your definition of love.
It’s easy to talk ourselves out of our need for love, especially when it seems so abstract and distant (I’ve done it for years). But I do believe we always come back to it, and to not would be to our great detriment.
I think part of the reason I stayed with Matthew for so long and through such mistreatment is because I needed to believe in love to get me through the worst of my illness. I look back at all of the pain I’ve experienced in the last nine months, and the knowing that for him it was a lie, and I still wouldn’t give up my experience of loving him for anything. It healed me.
Love makes no sense to the mind, but to the spirit and the soul, it’s everything. Love exists beyond the material, the logical, the reasonable, the constructs of society, and - often - sanity. It’s inconvenient and messy and disgusting, but it’s also (in my opinion) necessary.
That said, up until recently, my relationship with love wasn’t healthy, and that’s what made me a magnet for chaos and suffering for it. Real, healthy love doesn’t ask you to choose. And if does, it’s usually worth the compromise.
Cici, I love your balancing between pragmatism and romanticism. I agree with you about healthy love being worth the compromise. I think it’s easy to get caught up in the chaos of unhealthy entanglements because they are exciting and that excitement makes us feel more alive. Unfortunately it can also make us feel like we are on a rollercoaster ride with very high “ups” and extremely low “downs”. Ultimately it doesn’t feel good to stay hyper vigilant, wondering how the other person feels about us. Lasting love may lack the volatility of a passionate love affair, but that’s what is necessary for the benefits of co-regulation. I love your writing, and feel a kinship with your story. We may not agree on all points when it comes to love and relationships, but I have mad respect for you always. 🥰❤️
“I think it's easy to get caught up in the chaos of unhealthy entanglements because they are exciting and that excitement makes us feel more alive. Unfortunately it can also make us feel like we are on a
rollercoaster ride with very high "ups" and extremely low "downs". Ultimately it doesn't feel good to stay hyper vigilant, wondering how the other person feels about us. Lasting love may lack the volatility of a passionate love affair, but that's what is necessary for the benefits of co-regulation.”
BRILLIANT!
Thank you Lila. You are an amazing woman and I’m so glad to have connected with you. XO 😍❤️
I feel precisely the same way about you Amy! ❤️
Amy, your response beautifully highlights the tension between the excitement of volatile love and the grounding stability of healthy, lasting love. I can deeply relate to your thoughts on co-regulation and the importance of equality in relationships.
In my past relationships, I often found myself in co-dependent dynamics, where I never truly felt equal—it was more about 'power over' than 'power with.' That imbalance left me craving something healthier and more mutual. If you have access to MasterClass, I’d recommend Esther Perel’s sessions on Relational Intelligence about relationships and love—it was a real eye-opener for me, offering new perspectives on connection and intimacy.
Oooo I love Esther Perel! I just listened to her interview with Miranda July about her book “All Fours”. Yes, you capture exactly what I was thinking about. I’ve been doing some research on the concept of “gender roles” (a concept which is actually quite recent in the US, 1950s), to better understand how masculine and feminine traits were assigned and accepted at large. Is it nature, nurture, or a combination of the two which can form a kind of addiction to love, in an unhealthy way? It’s a lot to think about and I haven’t found any easy answers.
Amy, I often wonder if everyone in the Western world over 35 who was socialized as female has, in some way, absorbed the idea that love involves “power over.” It’s the shadow of classical patriarchy, reinforced by hierarchical structures that shaped so much of life for generations before us. Obedience and oppression weren’t just accepted—they were normalized for our female ancestors. That’s how they were raised. I suspect the influence of religion played an even stronger role for some women, particularly in the U.S., where many religious extremists, cast out from European homelands, established new communities shaped by rigid beliefs.
( which has it’s different effects also today).
Back at you, my sister. ❤️❤️❤️
(And yeah, I’m definitely a hopeless romantic. It’s my best and worst quality.)
Cici, your reflections are incredibly moving. I deeply resonate with your insights about love and co-regulation being essential to both our physiology and sense of safety. Love, in its purest form, is non-dual—it isn’t bound to conditions or circumstances, even when it becomes entangled with pain or complexity.
Your experience with Matthew speaks to how love, even amidst struggle, can provide profound healing. Yet it’s powerful that you’ve also recognized the importance of healthy love—one that nurtures rather than diminishes. Thank you for sharing this part of your journey—it’s a poignant reminder of love’s transformative essence.
Thank you!! I’m one of those ride or die I love love girls, no matter how much it burns. It’s always worth it to me. It’s not the same for everyone, of course, but for me that has always (so far) been true.
Cici, your passion for love shines so clearly, and I admire your courage to embrace it fully, even when it’s challenging. Your 'ride or die' approach is such a beautiful testament to the faith you have in love’s power, no matter how complex or consuming it may be. It’s inspiring to witness someone who sees love as always worth it, even with the risks it brings. Thank you for sharing your perspective—it’s a gift to hear how deeply you honor love’s place in your life. 🩷
Great questions! Some initial thoughts: to me, love (by which I guess I mean some sort of intelligent energy) is the basic building block of existence. This comes from an experience I once had that was a spiritual awakening of sorts (I've written about it before). I also personally believe we are souls currently having a human experience, and most likely lots of them over the course of our evolution.
So, like, yeah, food, water, and oxygen are basic survival needs in a way that romantic love is not - but when I zoom out and look at why are we doing this human dance in the first place, it is (for me) to learn things and grow spiritually so that I may embody a more divine love and maybe someday merge with whatever that loving energy is at the center of existence. And without that, I would feel a sort of existential angst that, granted, is a privilege you don't have when dying of thirst or whatever, but to me that is the kind of love I would rank highly on the list.
Thank you Bonnie for such a beautiful response to what I envisioned was a simple question. It was clearly much more complicated, and I'm not even sure of my own feelings like I once was. I love you 🥰❤️
Love you too ❤️❤️❤️
Bonnie, I deeply appreciate the way you’ve framed love as an intelligent energy and the basic building block of existence. That perspective is so expansive and resonates with a sense of interconnectedness I often reflect on. Your description of the human experience as a journey to learn, grow, and embody a more divine love really speaks to me. It feels like such a profound yet grounding way to look at our purpose here.
You’re absolutely right that love, in this broader sense, addresses a need beyond survival—a kind of spiritual sustenance. While food, water, and oxygen keep the body alive, love in this form nourishes the soul and gives deeper meaning to the human dance, as you so beautifully put it.
That contrast between the urgency of physical needs and the privilege of contemplating love’s divine nature is so striking. It reminds me of how layered and complex our human experience is—we’re balancing the immediate with the infinite, the tangible with the transcendent. Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful and inspiring perspective!
❤️❤️❤️
It's true that love can't feed/water us or clothe us or give us physical structures. But it can do a number on our nervous systems and brains, it can help us heal quicker, it can provide emotional safety and security - all of which are equal to our physical wellbeing. I do not believe romantic love is an end all be all love, in fact it's never supposed to be, it's supposed to be the foot in the door kind of love. I've always viewed romantic love as an ebb and flow kind of love. You build the foundation on love for one another by cultivating trust and friendship and mutual respect for each other, romantic love comes in and plays for a little while then goes down for a nap and comes back again to play and then goes down for a nap, etc.. over and over. At least that's how I've viewed it :)
I love your thoughts on it! And to answer your question - yes, a peaceful life and romantic love can absolutely coexist :)
Wise Mesa! I think what you wrote about is the ideal in practice, and so I wonder why this type of love is not "marketed" towards young people. I suppose it isn't "sexy" enough, there needs to be conflict in storytelling, and the higher the stakes the better. If there's one thing about getting older (and I actually believe there are many) it's that we value the peaceful, drama-free love over the frenetic passion of movie love. I hope I'm making some sense. I just listened to Noha Beshir and Amanda Hinton on their livestream and I'm a bit in my feelings. I love you Mesa, XO 🥰❤️
Mesa, I love how you’ve described romantic love as an ebb and flow—a kind of playful, cyclical presence that integrates itself into a foundation of trust, friendship, and mutual respect. That imagery really resonates with me.
I also appreciate your point about love’s impact on our nervous systems and emotional wellbeing. While it may not fulfill our primary physical needs, the emotional safety and healing it offers feel just as essential for a thriving life. Love, in all its forms, has this incredible way of weaving itself into our overall health, creating connections that nurture us in ways we often overlook.
And I agree—romantic love doesn’t have to be the "end all be all" kind of love. It’s one piece of a larger mosaic that includes self-love, community love, and all those little acts of care we give and receive daily. I think when we let love exist alongside peace, rather than viewing them as opposing forces, it enriches both.
Your perspective is such a gift—thank you for sharing it!
I love your thoughts on Love.
I have been learning in adulthood that non-romantic love is SO underrated!!
Thank you K! I found that after Steven’s death I was looking for passion, not necessarily love, but something powerful to make me feel alive again. I’ve just come to realize that over time that type of relationship doesn’t last. I just wonder if there’s a way to have the peaceful, gentle love that endures while sometimes experiencing wild passion, the type that will knock your socks off? I love you K XO 🥰❤️
Good questions to consider
My immediate thoughts
A peaceful life because if I am at peace, I try wonderful people to myself and I can enjoy who I am, which might be romantic and which might not
Both
It’s not as straight forward as I first imagined. I guess this is what I’m wrestling with as I think about finding a new partner or remaining single. I am lonely, and I do long for romantic love, but I am also living a peaceful life. I’m not sure how to balance the ambiguity at the beginning of a relationship. This is often the exciting part of getting to know someone new, but with so much uncertainty about the future I feel very anxious. My nervous system is primed for loss, and I’m afraid to experience it again.
I hear you, Amy. It sounds like you can't go wrong as you are so honest — the anxiety is normal and in naming it — for me — it is a more friendly companion. Not sure I will ever get over anxiety or feel I can manage a relationship — even though I do feel lonely at times. I look forward to cheering you on and learning from this adventure.
Without love (or whatever we call what we give to infants beyond basic food and shelter), infants do not thrive. They can survive, but do not thrive.
Maybe we all need that whatever it is called to thrive.
I think we do all need some type of love and caring for other human beings, I just find that romantic love is often packaged as something more like attraction in reality. We talk about heat, a spark, fire - to me it feels volatile and unpredictable, but does that ring true for you? I'm curious to get a man's perspective.
Wow. I’m flattered that you asked for my perspective.
I agree that romantic love often feels volatile and unpredictable, and I’m not sure any of us enjoy that. It is the most interesting kind of love, which is probably why it gets so much attention, but it doesn’t work well as a standalone.
The ancient Greeks did a pretty decent job of sorting through the different varieties of those emotions we call love. Xenia, Storge, Eros, Philia, Philautia, and Agape.
Agape: unconditional love. Charity.
Philia: loyalty to friends, family, community. Brotherly love.
Storge: love within a family towards family members.
Xenia: hospitality
Philautia: a healthy regard for oneself that can bleed over into egotism.
Eros: the really good stuff that causes so much trouble and and so much joy. It also causes babies.
As a man, I’m thinking analytically about a combination of these different types of love that would make me most happy.
Agape: 25%. It’s what I chose as a career and how I found satisfaction in the workplace.
Philia: 20%. It’s where we find our self worth, acceptance, and security among our families, friends and communities. Vital.
Storge: 30%. The love we have for those closest to us. The bonds of family. The love infants require to thrive. Home and all that it means.
Xenia: 20%. It’s what makes the world a safe-ish place to live. I’ve experienced it all around the world, from cattle herder camps in the African wilderness to McMansions in America. It’s seems dicey but we really can count on it.
Philautia: 10%. It’s the healthy self-regard that can easily bleed into arrogant assholism. Handle with care.
Eros: theoretically, 100% would be my natural preference (as a man) but this candle burns hot and from both ends. It can bring great joy or a lot of trouble. It also doesn’t serve us well outside a healthy mix of the other varieties, but when it’s good, there is no human experience like it. It is especially great as it matures with time and experience together. This kind of love between two people is like a soul superglue that binds them together through thick and thin.
I don’t know if this makes sense, Amy, but it’s my perspective. Others’ mileage may very.
This is pretty amazing - I appreciate this detailed information. It's going to take me a little while to digest it all, however I will read it in the context of the times. This list was written by men who were the only people allowed the benefits of citizenship (women, children and slaves were not considered citizens). That doesn't mean I disregard the novel ideas proposed by the ancient Greeks, but it's important to understand that they only applied to a quarter of the population. It's difficult to understand how a group of men can be so smart in many regards and yet treat 3/4 of the population as property.
I always think of how they were the only small light in an era of darkness when almost everyone lived in brutal poverty and oppression. It all had to start somewhere and other than the Hebrews, there was a lot of darkness.
That is very true my friend. Darker for some than for others.
Hi Amy. I enjoyed thinking about this, and I beg to differ a bit. I think love is a primary need to grow up healthy. I think about the children who went to Indian residential schools, lacking a loving parent to nurture them, who grew up to be people who had no idea how to parent, suffered with addictions and had kids who grew up traumatized due to the lack of love of their parents... that type of love, whether from a parent or a surrogate, is what provides us peace and stability. If we have that, we can manage without romantic love. Thanks for the thought-provoking question! And for your writing.
Hi Susan! Thank you so much for this thoughtful comment. Yes, I agree 100% that children need the love and caring of adults in order to thrive and in many cases to survive. There are so many different types of love, and so many levels. I've been thinking a lot about romantic love and how it's "sold" to girls as a passion. This type of relationship is often unhealthy and possessive, and most detrimental to women. I just wonder if that's by design? Is it nature, nurture or a combination of the two?
The best of all worlds, in my view, is a long happy marriage, where you are living with a well-seasoned love. Your world contains that emotion, which brings inner joy, contentment and occasional passion without all the hormones of new love throwing you in all kinds of directions. My post next Wednesday is exactly about the meaning of love to people who have been married a long time (the title is Encounter in Rome). When you think about it, not many songs are about this either.
I agree with you Ann, and David too. Unfortunately, my happy marriage ended when Steven died. I haven't been successful trying to replicate that type of love with someone new. I'm beginning to think it isn't really possible to have that type of love twice, not at my age, because I won't be having and raising a family with a new man. I once believed I would fall in love again after my husband died, but it's proven to be a very painful experience. I think my expectations were unrealistic, but I don't know any other way to be than how I am.
I know, Amy, and I am very sad for that fact. It could have been any of us, but it happened to be you. I don't think you are right to assume it can't happen again. It's just damned difficult to find. No, you won't be having children with a new man but you have a long life ahead of you and there are good men out there somewhere who would bring you joy. One day, when you are least expecting it, you will be pleasantly surprised and amazed. I hope it is soon.
Thank you Ann. Beautifully stated, and much appreciated. 🥰❤️
Ditto for me, Ann.
Romantic love, fun to read about, not so good in a real relationship. I'm married to a man I love with all my heart, and romance has nothing to do with it. It's about respect and commonality and the chance to be authentic for each other.
That sounds like a really beautiful relationship Fran. Thank you so much for sharing it with me. I appreciate you 🥰
I believe we can have both. I see romantic love as close to primary, to need. Long time with my husband, but I was safe and free to be me. Long time on my own but feeling safe, supported, free and cared about. That guy completes my life… a hand to hold, the anticipation, attraction. But it’s on our terms… being on our own but together now and then. Great piece to ponder, Amy! And I think you’ll change your mind as time and fate brings new people and experiences. It’s also different for each person; some never open their hearts again after loss or divorce. We are the lucky ones, when recovering from grief is helped a bit! ☺️🫶
You are a brave revolutionary Joan! When I feel particularly tender and vulnerable I will let you hold my hope for a new love. Sometimes the longing is just too much for me to carry on my own. I put it on a shelf and focus on other parts of my life. I don't want to be a closed off wounded person, but my "man picker" has been on the fritz. Love you to pieces! XO 🥰❤️
Man picker 😂 just let it be. I like that you’ll focus on other things and get on with living joyfully. He’ll show up when you least expect it!
Amy, you stated that “Primary needs are biological and physical, like oxygen, shelter, food, water and clothing.” I’m wondering how we separate primary needs from love? I can’t perceive them as something separate from love.
I’m open to understanding this more.
Hi Lila! I was referring to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. According to Wikipedia:
Maslow's hierarchy of needs is an idea in psychology proposed by American psychologist Abraham Maslow in his 1943 paper "A Theory of Human Motivation" in the journal Psychological Review. Maslow subsequently extended the idea to include his observations of humans' innate curiosity. His theories parallel many other theories of human developmental psychology, some of which focus on describing the stages of growth in humans. The theory is a classification system intended to reflect the universal needs of society as its base, then proceeding to more acquired emotions.
This is only one theory, and while it is widely accepted, it is by no means the only one. I should have clarified that by "primary needs" I meant physiological needs as stated in Maslow's hierarchy.
Thank you for the reply Amy! 🙏🏻
I don't feel you have to choose. I think one can lead a "peaceful" life in the context of a deeply satisfying romantic relationship. But "romance" means different things to different people. Some people see chaos and tension as inherent in what they think of as "romantic love," but I don't.
It may have to do with where we are in our lives. Right now my life is probably a bit too peaceful and definitely not nearly romantic enough.
I agree with you about where we are in our lives. I would love some romance in my life but not at the cost of my peaceful life. I am tired of doing all the emotional work within a relationship. I'm looking for a man who is able to talk about his feelings so I don't have guess, a man who understands that I need clear and consistent communication rather than vagueness and avoidance. I'm not sure he exists.
I'm definitely someone who wants to be free of drama. I can't take it. So I wouldn't sacrifice peacefulness just for romance. My own experience from my marriage is that even among two intelligent and verbally adept people good communication was often elusive. It's much harder to manage than one would think. It takes dedication from both partners. I like to think this is possible.
I will keep looking for it, that clear and consistent communication, but it takes two to tango 🥰. In my past relationships I was mostly dancing by myself.
Unrelated, I’m thinking I should give my Substack publication a proper name. What do you think of “Absolute Pleasure”?
Interesting. What is your motive for the name? In particular, the word “absolute”? I’m someone who tends not to think in terms of absolutes, so I’m curious about that. If you like it, go for it, regardless of what anyone else says. The only criterion that matters is whether it fits what you want to do to express what you want to express.
I explain where I got the name from in this note:
https://substack.com/@amygabrielle/note/c-79371156
Got it! I have many fond memories of that show. I saw it for the first time sometime around 1980 at a midnight show in my hometown theater. Weirdest movie experience I ever had. Audience members shouting at the screen. The start of a life-long appreciation of the charms of Susan Sarandon.
Amy, excellent question. I think that “the thing called love” changes as we do, becoming a richer, more layered experience. If we’re lucky, we will get to be on a relative with someone who can help you become the best version of yourself, and that this is a mutual process. I think that, realistically, we can’t exactly any one person to fill all of our needs at any given time. Just my thoughts. Much love to you, and Happy Thanksgiving!🦃🥰💕
Thank you Mary, and I agree that it's unrealistic to expect one person to fill all our needs and yet our familial structure is based on the "nuclear family". I feel like, post-pandemic lockdowns, we are more isolated than ever. I wonder if we lived a more communal or multi generational lifestyle if there would be as much importance placed on romantic love and finding our "soulmate". Basically, I just like to question systems we often take for grated as "just being the way things are" rather than they way our cultural systems shape them. I get curious about who benefits from the ideal of one man and one woman together forever. Does this ensure that women remain financially dependent on men? Once again, I have more questions than answers. Happy Thanksgiving to you too! XO 🥰❤️🥰❤️
Amy - The older I get, the more I value love derived from friendship rather than a romantic attachment.
I agree with you Elizabeth. In the three and a half years since my husband died I have had zero success finding a healthy romantic attachment, and I’m finding it easier to live a more peaceful life alone and with friends. I don’t know if that’s because my expectations didn’t match the reality of the way men and women connect romantically these days, or if relationships are just harder with so many “options” seemingly available 24/7.
The Brit Glam Band Sweet begs to differ with your conclusion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXJ4TZSXtzc
As for me, I don't want to choose between romantic love (or lust, both are great) and a peaceful life. Either on its own is nice but together...
I guess that was my question, because I've only ever felt lust outside of a relationship. There's a slow burn that happens over time when two people are in a long-term, monogamous partnership, that hasn't translated into what I think of as "passion". I was wondering if it's possible to have an ease and familiarity with someone and still lust for them. As I'm deciding whether I want to try dating again, I wonder if I need to adjust my expectations. I've looked for lust with the hope that it might develop into something more, but that never happens. I've been in relationships and tried to incorporate passion and it hasn't worked. I wonder if I need to chose one or the other, or maybe stick with the peaceful life I've created alone - even if it is lonely.
I think that the only way to really live life is to take risks and maintain your openness and vulnerability. Yes, when you enter into a new relationship, you're taking a risk of being hurt but, ultimately, that risk, pain, and joy are the things that make life worth living,
I have had a relationship that contained passion as well as comfort and it was sublime. It ended because of outside circumstances involving past family trauma on her part — but I'd kill to have that again and I'm willing to risk hurt in the searching for it.
Thank you for your perspective Mark. I always thought of myself as a calculated risk taker, but love is not something that can be assessed for its level of safety. I wish you so much luck and good fortune finding a love filled with both comfort and passion in equal measure! I would be happy to find something like that as well, but no luck yet.
Just try to remain open to people and possibilities that present themselves. Obviously, as a woman, you need to protect yourself from physical and emotional abuse due to misogyny and the "asshole quotient" but there are many many people who don't fit into either of those categories in this world...
In this case, I'd like to pose the question—why does it have to be separate? I do value my current quiet life, yes, yet living alone with almost no meaningful social connections involving intimacy leaves a kind of void. The only vital body contact I have comes from my physiotherapist, my Thai massage therapist, my Alexander Technique coach, and my cat. And to be honest—it’s not enough.
From time to time, I wish to be held, to have someone to lean on, a shoulder to rest against. And I believe that in a relationship based on equity, mutual respect, and appreciation—where both partners see eye to eye and don’t need to "complete" one another because we’re each whole, complete, valid, and worthy on our own—why not have both peace and love?
Romantic love doesn’t need to disrupt peace; it can complement it, creating a shared sanctuary where connection and individuality coexist. For me, the two don’t have to conflict—they can enrich one another. I’d love to hear how others experience this balance.